We don't need to feel guilty, but we do need to respect that the wounds of what has happened in the past are still there. We need to have sympathy and do what we can to help those wounds heal.
I don't think it will be easy at all, in fact...sometimes I don't think it will ever happen.
As for society...none of the slavery was done by our modern society or anyone alive today. Why should we feel guilty for something we didn't do?
We don't need to feel guilty, but we do need to respect that the wounds of what has happened in the past are still there. We need to have sympathy and do what we can to help those wounds heal.
I know racism exists today, but it exists against white people too. Are you saying that the racism against other races are worse than the racism against white people? It's not. All racism is bad.
I do not acknowledge that I, a white person, am benefiting from racism. I don't see any white privelige today. I see priveliges that come with wealth, but not with color. Everyone in the USA has an equal opportunity to advance themselves.
In short, I am PROUD of being white and my race. I don't feel any guilt or shame about it, and I shouldn't.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">YOU'RE MAKEING THIS SOUND LIKE IT'S
ALL
MY FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They made those rules so it wouldn't happen to any one again. So no one would make the mistake of putting to many tickers in there sig like me. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THE TICKERS HAVE GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm still a little new and have a bit more to learn about HB, I'll attmite that much. But I will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever..... EVER atmite the whole ticker rules were set because of me. And if you think that then I'd have to say to you, sorry but you're the one thats wrong!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I don't think it is entirely your fault. YOu made a mistake, and while your stubbroness at first might have led to the limit on tickers, I think the problem could've been left at that. But it opened a whole Pandora's box of problems that didn't need solving. So no, it's not your fault completely at all! I think the whole thing got way out of control, to be honest. It turned into a slipperly slope and while you might have started it, it didn't need to go as far as it did.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That doesn't make it okay. There is absolutely no reason that past actions are justifiable reasons for discrimination against any race. You can't tell me that since white people owned slaves, it's okay if I'm discriminated against by black people approx. 150 years later.In short: no, whites do not have a history comparable to other ethnic groups in this country. Any "reverse discrimination" whites have ever "suffered" is petty compared to what other groups have lived under for hundreds of years.
Of course discrimation by skin color is deplorable!! It doesn't matter if it happens to those with darker skin or those with white skin. What I'm saying is not that that doesn't happen- but that in the United States, white people have [i]institutional power[/p].
Tra, you probably have never really thought about this beyond the "all people are created equal" idea. That's a great idea, but the truth is, it doesn't yet exist in America. Racism still exists. Since you are white, you probably don't see racism at its worst very often.
I'm not saying you choose to benefit from racism. We may disagree on many issues, but I know that you wouldn't be like that. No, what I am talking about are the ways are society is set up to benefit people who are white. You can't stop benefitting from those things- all you can do is acknowledge that not everyone does. You can work to make change by working in your own community to change some of these things, but the truth is: right now, they still exist.
I am not trying to attack you. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm saying that in our American society, racism and its effects are so ingrained that many people just don't see them.
Here's a list of privileges white people have. They may not seem like a big deal, but when they all add up, they are.
(By Peggy McIntosh)
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
First of all, thanks for saying that about not personally attacking me and my not intentionally choosing to benefit from racism.
Secondly, I can see how racism is ingrained, but it is not only ingrained in white people. It is also ingrained in black people and people of other colors. Your list said something about mistrust...well, black people mistrust white people all the time...at least as much as white people mistrust black people. White people aren't the only ones who are racist.
As for the list:
Some of the things on that list are true.
Some of those things...such as people worrying that their actions will reflect badly on their race...occur to all people. Not necessarily in the racial context but, for example, I find that happening to me in the religious context. I'm always worrying that if I say or do something, a non-believer might think all Christians do that.
Some of those things are there for a reason. The "affirmative action" thing is true, but that's because affirmative action, at least in the modern day, is wrong.
Some of those things are untrue (such as the "most of the time I can protect my children from people who don't like them")
Some of those things have nothing to do with race. (such as number 27, which happens to all people).
Some of those things aren't anybody's fault. It's just the way it is. Whites are a majority (though that doesn't always mean the majority rules). That's not gonna change nor should it. What should change is for people to stop feeling guilty about racism and stop looking at everyone as incredibly different than them and see them as Children of God. Unfortunately, that's hard to do, for, as you said, racism is somewhat ingrained into the society. I never said racism doesn't exist nowadays, but you must admit it is much better than it was historically.
A lot of those things are equally the fault of the black people as they are of the white people.
None of those things are my fault. None of those things are the fault of all white people. None of those things are the fault of our government. All the things in that list which are wrong and should be changed are the fault of racist people everywhere and in all the races.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 04, 2006 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Tra ]</font>
Tra, I agree. Racism isn't your fault. Racism is something that began a long, long time ago.
I hope that someday things will be equal for all people, regardless of who they are.
Of course people of color can be racist, but on a larger societal level, people of color do receive fewer privileges than white people do. It's deplorable when anyone is racist, regardless of who is being targeted. I don't think it's okay for a person of color to mistrust a white person because they are white, but the reasons why that would happen are different than vice versa.
I hope that one day, people can truly be judged "by the content of their character" as Dr. King said.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 04, 2006 09:43 PM: Message edited by: The Handmaid ]</font>
I know a boy who goes to my school and last year at his old school a colour boy his age was calling him names. The coloured boy was calling him 'white-y' in a very aggressive mean way for a long while. Until the white boy got so sick and tired of his name calling day, after day, after day he decided to do something about it. He went up to the coloured boy and called him 'blackie'. And you know what happened? The black boy told a whole mess of teachers every thing that had happened(except for the part where he called another boy names) and the white kid got suspended!! SUSPENDED!!!! For at lest a couple of days!!!!!!!!! I was horrified at this, but what could a 'white-y' like me do? [img]mad.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 04, 2006 10:42 PM: Message edited by: MissCurlyCat ]</font>
That's terrible, MissCurlyCat! I hope everything worked out! Things like that really make me angry! [img]mad.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/grrr.gif[/img]
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